Wie funktioniert die Bezahlkarte im Alltag? – Interview mit einem Nutzer (Englisch)

Mamadou* lebt in Magdeburg und muss seit September die Bezahlkarte nutzen. Es gibt viele Herausforderungen für die Menschen, die die Bezahlkarte nutzen müssen.

Wir haben mit ihm über die Bezahlkarte und über das Leben in Deutschland gesprochen. Hier erzählt er uns, wo er gerne leben würde und was er darüber denkt, anderen Menschen zu helfen.
Es begann als Interview zwischen zwei Nicht-Muttersprachler*innen und entwickelte sich zu einem netten Gespräch.

Wir danken Mamadou sehr für das Gespräch.

 

FR: Hi Mamadou, nice to have you here. I would like to start with the questions.

FR: First the things to get to know you better: When did you com to Germany?

M: 2019 (…)

FR: And you are from?

M: Guinea-Bissau. Yes.

FR: And did you come to Magdeburg first or where was your first point in Germany?

M: No I was in…

FR: Halberstadt?

M: No, before Halberstadt I was in one city here in Germany. Then after they took me to this place where they take these immigrants, Karlsruhe. Then from Karlsruhe they bring me to Halberstadt.

FR: Okay, so it was a long journey.

M: Yeah, it was a long journey.

FR: And why couldn’t you just stay in Karlsruhe?

M: No, they are the ones, who transferred me. They told me that Guinea-Bissau people, they don’t stay here.

FR: Okay. And did they talk to you in English?

M: Yeah, because they asked me: “What language do you want us to talk with you?” I tell them, I can speak Portuguese, Creole…

FR: You cant speak Creole?

M: Yeah.

FR: That’s cool.

M: Yeah, I can talk Creole, because I’m from there. But the time I was going out I was a little bit, you know. But the Creole I used to speak then is a little bit similar. Not like the same, because for so many years I’m not there.

FR: And how many languages are you able to speak?

M: I speak many languages. Like maybe seven or eight.

FR: So, it’s usual in African countries that you can talk more than four languages.

M: Yeah, you can talk more than four languages.

FR: When I met a little Guinean girl for the first time, she was able to talk in French and Kissi and English. And she was only five years old and I thought it was pretty cool.

M: Yeah, it’s cool. Really African, because you sit with different nationalities. Through that you can speak many languages. Also you have friends from different languages. So sometimes you speak Mandinka, Fula, Wolof, English, Mandjak, Pepel, Balanta, Jola, Sarahule, Serer, you know. You have so many.

FR In Germany, most people only can talk in two languages.

M: Yeah, I know. I see that.

(…)

FR: So it must be complicated for you to communicate with people here.

M: Yeah, of course, of course. Because here it’s good to travel. When you travel, you have experience, because you’re meeting a lot of different people. So you have different stuff with them through chatting, through friending. Friendship, you know. So this world is for us. So you have to research it. Yeah.

FR: Yes.

M: What can we do?

(…)

FR: And do you have friends here in Magdeburg?

M: Yeah, I have friends. I have friends. I have family. Like a friend here, definitely is a good friend with his wife. I have other friends also.

FR: And also German ones?

M: Yeah, I have German ones. I had even girlfriends before. (...)  So now I just want to take my time and see what is coming.

FR: Most people when they come here, they don’t have friends. And they never get some, because it’s Magdeburg…

M: No, but you must. Here, you cannot be here without. You have to. Friend doesn’t come man or woman, you know. Friend is all.

FR: Yeah, I think it’s true, but most people…

M: You can’t be friends with everyone, you know. When you don’t be friendly with somebody, who lives here or who stays here, you will not know nothing. You can have maybe some question. They will tell you some history of here or some… Anything of here. So it’s cool.

FR: I really like that you think like that.

M: Now here I don’t blame people, because anywhere you go, whatever you see here, you see it in the other side also. So maybe you can say it’s too much here. There is not too much. What you see here, you must see it there. Either in Africa, Europe, America, you must. Because the racism, you know, it’s all there.

FR: That’s right.

M: So what can you say? So this is life. You must see and experience what other people … They are good, others are bad. Yeah, this is the world, everything is true. Yeah, everything is true. So you have to, when you judge it like this, you have to judge it like this also, you know.

[Shows two sides with his hands]

So this is it. Because it’s just like when you want to do something, you have to think either it’s correct or not correct. Either good or not good. Would I do it or I will not do it. Would I will have it or I will not have it. So it’s two things.

FR: Always considering the right opinion.

M: Yes, that’s right.

FR: And now you have to use the payment card?

M: Yeah.

FR: Since when?

M: Yeah, I think now this month is going to be three months. [Oct. 2024]

FR: Okay. And what is it like to have it?

M: Yeah, definitely. In another way, it's not good. In another way, it's like, you know, because by right, this is our card. So the money they give it to us, cash before. And now they say they will put it in the card. And this card, there are some places when you enter there, you cannot, they don't use it. So if I told you, you want to buy something there to eat, or something, clothes or shoes, then you will not get it there.

FR: Because they don’t take your card?

M: Yeah. Yeah. You can’t use it there!

And the card also, you cannot take out, only 50 Euro you can take out. Why? It shouldn’t be like that. Before they give us the money, cash for something. So why now the card? Whatever you feel like to do, you do it with it. I you want [points at interviewer], you can take out 100, 200, you buy something.

There are some bars, when you go there, you cannot, they don’t use the card. So many shops here. So that one is another problem.

FR: So I would say bars, this is a thing that’s never mentioned anywhere or ever heard. Everybody tells about the mini markets or something like this, were you can’t pay for your typical food. But the bar, yes, you need free time, something to do.

M: Yeah, you need free time. Friday, Saturday or Sunday. Yeah, you need free time. You can go to the bar or you can go to a club. So they don’t this card. So how would you do? You feel busy, you know. So it’s crazy. And here also, many people have fun. So now, if you see only 50 Euro, you can take out there. So if you have children there, how should you do?
They are going to school. So it’s crazy sometimes, because this life, how they are going with it. How. We, the human being, are the ones making these things hard.

FR: Could you explain what really changed since you have to use it? What were the changes?

M: The change is like, how it was before and now is different. Because before the money is with you, you can send for your kids, you can go anywhere and buy whatever you need. But right now, you cannot go anywhere with that card to buy something. Because there are special shops. You can enter, they allow the card. They say they use the card. That also I another problem for us, definitely.

FR: What would you change? If you could say, I can say how to use the payment card, how would you change it?

M: For me, it will be normal. Like you took out a bank card.

Yeah, it should be equal. You can have it there, wherever you go, when they say no, here, they don’t use the card. You can go to the bank and take out the money and buy what you need.

FR: So use it like a usual cash card?

M: Yeah, it’s your money. Yes. Because it’s your money…

So right now, when it’s there you can not spend all that for food. ‘So that is for food and this things.’ We have to buy our clothes, we have to buy shoes, you have to go out.

So how, how, how could that be? It’s not easy for us, definitely. I feel the same. Like yesterday. I went to a supermarket. I put the card, but it doesn’t work.

FR: This was the question, too.

M: If I told, I don’t have money there, how would they… they will think that I’m, you know, tripling…

So then after I was having money, I just take out the money and then pay.

FR: So how do you feel when you’re at the supermarket and you have to pay with a payment card? How do you feel when you have to use it?

M: I feel normal when the money is there. If I pay and it works. I feel normal. But if I pay and it doesn’t work, I feel something… I feel bad. Definitely. Because you know how they judge us here: black people like this, the whites are not like that. Not are people are the same. Other people are different. You can see them by face or by this thing [taps on his heart]. The whites in the heart or personality is not like that. Because sometimes people judge with face, with character.
But here is all! [Taps on his heart again.]

FR: When you put out the card, is there a difference to a cash card? And can the person, the cashier, can the person see that it is different?

M: Yeah, because sometimes when you take it out, they look at you. Because they, some, I think most of them never seen this, like this card. So they look at you first. And then they say ‘yeah put’. And if you put, then they see it marked, they say okay.
But I went several times with some of the boys, they went with this card. While they [social welfare office] say they paid them. When they put it to the machine, there is no money.

FR: So sometimes it happens that there is no money on the card?

M: Yeah, sometimes when you use it, there is no money. For me, this card is not finished.

FR: So, what do you do when this happens?

M: Ah, well, we cannot do nothing, because we see it like that. And not only me complaining about it. Many people are complaining about it in my home [Heim], you know.

FR: But can you go to someone to tell and complain and say, hey, here, I wanted to pay and there was no money?

M: Yeah, last time it happened to me, I went to our social [worker]. I tell him, how comes this card, money is there, but I went to supermarket, it doesn't work? And I tell him, can you check it for me? Then he checked it and he told me money is there, 250 Euros. So I say, how could that be possible? So then I realize, maybe it doesn't work here.

FR: You can’t pay in every supermarket?

M: No, not all.

FR: You have to know which one.

M: I can show you here. [shows mobile phone] Because it used to mark here on your telephone. Whatever you buy, it mark on your phone.

FR: You have an app where you can see it?

M: Yeah, I have an app here. Let me show you.

FR: How did you get to know about the app?

M: The app, they [social welfare office] are the ones who give to me. They say I have to download it.

FR: And you can see how much money is on your card?

M: No, I don't normally. What I buy and what I destine, that's what I see. Yeah, you see, like this yesterday. You see, which supermarket is that? [shows the app on the phone]

[FR says name of the supermarket]

M: Okay, I went there, but it doesn’t work. That’s why the red line is up. [shows red line in the app]

FR: But this one shows that it worked two times, doesn’t it?

FR: Ah, it doesn’t work. That’s what the woman told me. It doesn’t work.

(…)

FR: And how often does it happen?

M: I don’t know. That’s why I say this card, it confuses us, you know.

FR: Is there anything positive about the payment card?

M: No. It’s not. About this card, I don’t understand. Many people don’t understand this card still now. Yeah, it brings confusion sometimes. Just like I told you, you see money there, sometimes you go to another supermarket to buy, they say ‘money is not there. The card is empty.’

So that’s the problem.

So right now, they have to see how to help us. This card, they’re supposed to help us to function everywhere, because we also, we are human beings, supporting human rights. No human rights now. Because we are all the same.

So their card, they are using it anywhere, everywhere. So what about us? Our card, as far as they don’t want us to work or do anything, the card, the payment, it’s all money. We can enter any place and buy what we need. But we’re not, then it’s crazy. This is like another, we don’t, we cannot understand it.

FR: But when you want to buy some food from your country, where do you go?

M: Sometimes we go to this Asian shops for African food.

FR: Yes. And do they take it there? Can you use the card there?

M: Some take, some they don’t take. Some take it, some they don’t take it, you know. Yeah, so that’s the problem. And here also, we the Africans, most of us don’t eat like this, this thing. We are used to African food. When you cannot buy from this people, how could you do? That is crazy.

FR: How do you know that they take it or they don’t?

M: I have been there. I tried. Even [my friend] also tried. She went to this Asian shop and she told me, she went there and it doesn’t work.

FR: So you have to try it? You have to go to every single shop and try if it works there?

M: Yes, I have to try if it works there, because when you go to a shop and it doesn’t work there, you have to try another shop. Because you need it. Because you can’t sit in the house and have nothing there. When you have money on the card, you cannot go there and just buy what you want to buy. So what is that?

FR: Sometimes you have to go to the usual German supermarket, because you are not able to buy something in the Asian market?

M: Because normally we buy in the supermarket and we buy in the Asian’s.

FR: Is it more expensive in the supermarket?

M: Yeah, it’s a little bit expensive there. The Asian market is a little bit more for my scene. And for us also, some of us, they only eat halal, they don’t eat this… So that’s the problem, you know. So you cannot buy some meat, other meat in the supermarket. You can only buy halal on the Asian shop.

FR: Yes, I know the one in the city, there’s a big market, which is selling halal food.

M: Yeah. No. There are my there. There are many. There is another one just before the kebab. There is another one at the corner, just near the supermarket, you know.

FR: But I know one of them doesn’t take the payment card.

M: That’s what I’m telling you. Not all take, you know. So that’s craziness. Because when they don’t take, where you used to buy, so what, ho can you do? You have to see with people to… Because not all people can do that. Like telling you, help me, I buy this, or I have money here, I want to buy this thing, but here they don’t take the card. That’s fucked up.

They have to see how to change about this card. I think it’s better. So that we can use it any… Yeah, definitely.

FR: Can you pay outside Magdeburg or just inside?

M: For me, I tried outside, it works. I try it in the supermarket. Yeah, yeah, it works. Because before they told me that this card works only here. Outside it works, because I use it in Berlin, in Bremen, it works, you know. That’s how it’s supposed to be. Because you have to travel, you have to see people, you have to. So when you have that card there with the money there, how can you buy a ticket for the [train]? How can you buy? So it’s crazy. Just look for me, I buy monthly ticket and somebody buys that for me. So now, how can I pay that person with the money? And if they told only 50 Euro I can take out of that card. So how can I pay that, this thing? And I’m paying also like insurance. For my insurance, for my ticks also. So I have to pay there, you see. I should pay them this month, September and this month [October]. How can I pay? I cannot take out money from my card.

FR: How do you do it now?

M: I don’t know how to do it. Last time they sold me this card, only 17 days last day. So still now I didn’t pay it. So tomorrow I want to just see how would I do that.

FR: I don’t know what to say. I’m sorry.

M: Definitely, yeah. But how could we do? This is life, you know. Sometimes also you have to experience a lot.

FR: The social welfare office told us that they are doing an evaluation. And they ask people, how do you live with the payment card? Is everything okay with it?

Did they ever ask you?

M: Yeah, they sent me the letter. They sent me the letter, but I didn’t respond to them, because they do what they do. They shouldn’t ask us again what is it, you know. Maybe other people supposed to ask us, but not them.

(…)

FR: So most people didn’t answer to it when they got it?

M: Yeah, I think, some answered to it. Some answered to it. (…)

FR: So it’s online? You have to read it in German and then you have to answer in German.

M: Online, yeah.

FR: I just want to go back to the geographical side. Is it only your card that works in other cities or do you know about other cards?

M: I know somebody also.

FR: So maybe they say it to you, but it’s not like that?

M: Yeah, it’s not like that, you know. Because for me, they told me that, but I said let me try it and see, because I went to see somebody and I don’t have money there. So, I said let me try to the supermarket. So I tried, it worked, I said, okay, thank God.

FR: Is there something you want to say in addition?

M: Yeah, like, definitely they’re supposed to see how to help us about this card, you know. Because how it is, we don’t normally understand, because many people complain. Yeah, sometimes you see the money, sometimes it goes. Not one person, not two have complained about this. And also, like they told us that only 50 Euro you can take out. They’re supposed to at least adjust a little bit, maybe 150 or 200 is better.

100 or 200 is better, because others have kids, they have to send money for their kids. For school fees.

Yeah, so it’s what I was saying.

FR: Do you know other problems about it? Did you hear something from others? Like the school fees.

M: Yeah, others, they complain about that. Because some have kids, some have brothers, some have mothers. Definitely we don’t send all our money to our people. We send small for them and we stay with small.

FR: And the main argument for bringing the payment card was that people send money to their families at home…

M: Yeah, but there, that is your money. That is not a problem. It’s your money. Here, your money, whatever you feel like to do with it, you do it. When it’s not your money, aha. What is your money? You work it or you don’t work it. It’s your money. So like for us, that’s what we know. When you have, you have to help your family. So if you don’t help your family, who is going to help your family?

Yeah, you have to help your family. Because it’s your family. If you don’t help them, no one will help them. If they have, you will not help them. So when they don’t have, you help them. Like here, you are working, you help your kids, your mama, your sister.

So one of us, we also, when we have it, we have to help. Here, you don’t have to check what somebody is doing. When you check, you will see wrong thing there. And you will make him to do wrong thing, you know. So what is yours is yours. Whatever you feel like to do, do with it.

FR: It’s like a donation for a person, who lives on the street. You cannot say don’t use it for this or that.

M: Thank you very much. You see, so this is the way. But when we are thinking about the same for his family, what do you want him to do? You want him to give it to another family or what, in order to keep it there, leave it there, his family suffering? No, we don’t know that. But for us, what we know is helping. We should help each other. If not your family, anyone you see suffering, all of these things, you have to help. Because tomorrow, you don’t know how you’re going to end. But if you help, tomorrow when you suffer, the people you help will come and surprise you, help you again. Because what goes around comes around. What do you do, that comes.

If you put here pineapples, pineapples come. If you put here grape, grape come. But you cannot put here grape, pineapples come or something. So this is it. You know, here, I don’t know, maybe here the people how they do their things is different. That’s why traveling is good. For us, what we know is that we help family when you have it, because not all people can work, not all people can, you know, here everybody with his time, you know. When your time is, you have to help the other. That’s what we know.

FR: And does everybody have this card now or is there someone, who gets still cash?

M: No, other people, they don’t get it. They give other people money. Not all people have this card.

FR: And how do they choose the people? Do you know?

M: I didn’t know how they choose people.

FR: And are there, I don’t want to ask this question, but I have to. Are there some nationalities where most people have it and some nationalities where people don’t have it?

M: Yeah, I hear that, you know. I hear that. Some people… for me, I didn’t sometimes I just take maybe. Also like here we are all immigrants and everybody come with his own.

FR: I really like how you answer that question.

M: Yeah, everybody come with his own problem, with his own talking. You cannot, so maybe they can check on that. What you come for? What, what is your mission or what is, you know, I don’t understand. Sometimes I think like that. But sometimes I say, no, maybe this is their law. What they say, that’s what they… But for me I’m like somebody also, I just give everything to God. I believe in God so much, I will tell you the reality. Whatever I see happen, I know that is God. Without God, it can’t go. So that’s just how I think.

FR: You are a spiritual man.

M: No, it’s like that, the world, sometimes put pressure on us, and it’s like things, well it doesn’t necessarily. Yeah, it doesn’t necessarily…

Just look how the world is going on now, it’s crazy. Before people feel it, sympathy, you know, but now it’s all about politics, different.

Because now what they are fighting for, you never know what they are fighting for, land, oil, petrol, that kind of. People are dying, innocent people, because of what they will not explain, nothing correct. It’s all about politics, different, you know. So that’s why for me, I just sit and whatever comes, I just be here and say, yeah, this is it. Because nothing lasts long, anything you see, finish. It’s just time. Yeah, everything is time, so they can say, no, because we all know Germany here is like that. You have to be strong, when you are not, you cannot stay in this country.

FR: Are there any other countries you would like to go to, where it’s not that hard?

M: No, for me, I like Germany. I like Germany. I like Germany, no matter what, I like Germany, because definitely, for me, the racism, all of this thing doesn’t disturb me, because I know that we are seen everywhere. So I learn from people.

When I know that I cannot go with you, then I…

Doesn’t mean the problem would have to be, you know, I cannot go with you, it’s easier. Do what you do, I do what I do. So it’s very easy, but here, what is the problem sometimes, how people thing and they are this thing, so that’s the only thing, but people are different. And the way of thinking and the way of doing.

FR: What do you wish, what could improve in your future or what could be better? Are there any wishes?

M: Definitely. I want to work, because normally you have to work and then you can start planning your future, your life, because without working, you cannot plan. Yeah, to start work and then you start planning your things, how you’re going, make your life, you know. But without work, it’s stress, because we think so much.

Yeah, time is going and you don’t know when… So it’s crazy. It’s definitely crazy.

FR: And you are not allowed to learn German at the moment or do you?

M: Yeah, before I do it and now I ask them, but they don’t tell me nothing yet. Even a friend wrote some, this thing for me to ask them about school, but still now I’m on, maybe because of the failure. But I will keep trying, I will ask them again about it, because I need it.

FR: So it’s hard to get a German course?

M: Yeah, sometimes it’s hard, sometimes you go there, they tell you, no, you have to wait. Not only me. I have people there, they want to go to school. So they told me that still now, they didn’t tell them nothing. I tell them here, it’s like that. When you told them something, your problem, it’s not easy to, they make it fast. So it’s crazy, you know, because we need the school, we need to talk to the people, because there are some places, when you go there, they told you that kind of English, you know, so now, when you are not going to school, you cannot speak with them. So it’s crazy. We don’t need that, we need to speak with people, because that is better for us, it’s good for us. So they’re supposed to give us chance, also chances. Yeah, that’s the problem. Yeah, really bad, they don’t give us chances. Definitely.

FR: And if you could say something to, I don’t know, the people at the social welfare office or someone like this, or the people, who decide about the payment card, what would you say if you would have the chance to say something about it?

M: Yeah, this is what is there, that they have to change about the card. You suppose you can use it to everywhere and anything, any amount you want to take out, you can take it out. Because we are also human being, like the other people have their cards, so they are doing whatever they like to do it, so we also, our card, as far as they don’t leave us to work.

And pay our bills, or buy our things… So let them make our card, this card also, we can use it to everywhere, because we cannot use it to everywhere. So we also need to go to places to meet people. So like right now, if you have a friend, he invite you to a bar and the card, they don’t use it there, how would you do? You cannot go there.

FR: You want to live life like everybody does.

M: Yeah, we have to, because we are all human being. We have rights. We are not criminal, we are not somebody like, we shouldn’t use the card like that. When they don’t like it, then let them give us work, we can have a normal card like the people. We can use it, because we want to spend the money here. Yeah, we want to spend the money here. So if they don’t give us the chance to do that, how would we do?

Because before, just check, before they give you the money by cash. You buy, you enter anywhere, so now they change card. So why should they say that only 50 Euro you can take out there?

FR: So you would increase the amount of money you can have cash?

M: Yeah, that would be fine.

FR: For everyday life?

M: This is it. Yeah, this is it, because you don’t know, any time a problem can come. So if you have the card and now money is there, you cannot use it. What is the use of the card? (...)

If I told you can use it everywhere, then it’s good.

FR: Did you ever hear about exchange actions? Like you buy a voucher and another person gives you money for it. Did you ever hear about it?

M: Yeah, others they do it. Because like if you want to buy something, you go to another shop. You don't have… They don't allow this card there. What should you do? You have to go and wait for somebody or you stand at the supermarket and wait somebody buy and then they give you the money.

FR: Would you do it?

M: Yeah, I can. I will do it, because sometimes I need money fo enter to other place to buy. (…)

So when you don’t have the money, just like I told you, yesterday I went to the supermarket.

When you enter there, you cannot buy with your card. How would you do? You get stress, you know. Maybe you even problem the woman there when you don’t understand. You think that they just don’t want to. Well, it’s not from her, it’s from the card, you know. So at that time I just take out my money and then give. So if you don’t have that money, I will not buy those. I will not get those stuff.

It’s crazy.

(…)

FR: Thank you very much for talking to me so openly about this topic. I hope things get better for you soon.

*name changed